Mark Jacobs is thinking of quitting WoW because of the new achievement system.

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20 October 2008

by br3ntbr0

No not really, I made that up.
I have no clue if the head of Mythic actually plays WoW, but that is actually a somewhat relevant title for this article (I'll get to that more below) because of the recent back-and-forth between Jeff Kaplan and Mark Jacobs about Warhammer Online. Jeff (Tigole) Kaplan recently placed some public criticism on Warhammer, stating that he felt stuck at level 13 since there were long queue times to get into scenarios (he called them battlegrounds as Blizzard has named them), that PQ's weren't populated enough, and suggesting that Mythic was not very confident in their game because of its tight NDA. He touched on some real problems that Warhammer Online does indeed have, but also insinuated that the game is more problematic than it may really be. All this from a guy who works for a company that has a game that's been out for 4 years too. You'd think he'd understand the problems a new mmo has when launching, so his comments are really perplexing to say the least. Doesn't he know you aren't comparing apples and oranges here?

I now believe that such statements from Blizzard were calculated and intentional, and maybe I shouldn't be so confused by Jeff's statements. Its like a political battle now between these two companies, where every move must be calculated and analyzed. At stake are millions of gaming dollars people! I think its no accident that stories like this have surfaced right around the time that the free month for Warhammer players is over. It makes perfect sense that leaking out information like this (true or not) would benefit Blizzard by shaking the confidence of some of its former players, just in time for them to come back to WoW and try out their latest big 3.0 patch. Other nefarious statements right around the same time to the effect that "half of the Warhammer players have come back to WoW already" make my point. The timing on that one was far from accidental in retrospect. This also reminds me of another "coincidence". Only weeks after I canceled both of my WoW accounts, I got an email inviting me to the WotLK beta. What timing! Oh, and I would need an active account to participate too. Perhaps I should resubscribe to partake in it...

Those fargin' iceholes!
Why do I think Blizzard would do such a thing? After all, I've stated that I really like Blizzard and all they've done for the mmo genre of PC gaming. Well, its all about the money! Here's the deal...the US market is of the most lucrative out there because of its constant subscription dollars. We don't play like the Asians do, and the US market generates more revenue for these companies than Asia currently does. So for the sake of this argument, we can discount the millions of subscribers that WoW claims in Asia. Let's talk WoW US vs. WAR US here, which Blizzard reports to be 2.5 million subscribers.

I have to work on some assumptions here since all the actual numbers are not known, so lets assume that half a million players left WoW for WAR. So 500,000 out of the 750,000 that WAR claims to have came from WoW. Another assumption is that WAR has 750,000 subscribers after its free month is over...which is not likely. The fact is that no one knows for sure what these numbers really may be so we have no choice but to assume some things. So, if you just lost one fifth (maybe more, again this is based on assumptions) of your paid subscribers to another game, you might be worried enough to start pushing out some propaganda to get them back too. That's 7.5 million dollars (per month) at stake people! I'd get in my car and run over your mother twice for half that, I'm pretty sure Blizz will do what it takes to get that income back into Blizzard's coffers.

You've got issues too, shut yer pie hole.
Here in lies my problem with Blizzard's public criticism of its new arch-enemy Warhammer Online. Its ok to publicly bash Mythic and put them on the defensive, but nobody dares to take Blizzard to task for the crap it has been doing in the media lately. Ok, you did great things in the past Blizz, now stop the political crap (at least I hope it was politician-like and calculated, otherwise it was just plain stupid) and get back to making great games. While you may want to bash on Warhammer Online right now, you've got your own problems to deal with. The 3.0 patch has caused issues in your game, especially where your "unique" achievements system is concerned. If Mark Jacobs was playing WoW right now, I'd think he might want to quit your game too...he probably just wouldn't come out and start making public statements about it.

18 comments:

Geir said...: Mythic had Battlegrounds in Daoc long before wow released.
so him tryin to be funny is a failure.; October 20, 2008 1:07 PM
Pidge said...: There's nothing coincidental about any of this.

Blizzard is doing everything they can to blunt the impact of Warhammer -- because the main source of customers are going to be from Blizzard's own game.

People like Jeff Kaplan wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't try to discourage that wherever possible. He'd be strung up by his own management if he went on the record saying "yeah, Warhammer is great, everyone should try it."

All these recent events -- expansion of the beta, decision to allow pve-pvp transfers, recruit-a-friend, patch 3.02 timing, announcement of the release date of WOTLK, addition of WAR-flavored features and new discussion about more bgs and levelling via PVP are simply ammo in Blizzard's guns.

Mythic has more to lose in a mud throwing fight so they've been restrained, but I expect we'll hear more back and forth from both sides.

The bottom line is it's a waste of time to expect fair and unbiased behavior from people with a horse in the race.

I take all this PR-stuff with a grain of salt and just look at my own experiences in the game. I don't need anyone to tell me if I'm having fun or now -- and that is what will decide what I play long term.; October 20, 2008 1:32 PM
br3ntbr0 said...: All true Pidge. I just hope these guys are smart enough to know that the community can see through this charade. I'd just rather see Blizz fight back through a good expansion rather than slinging mud at Mythic.

Blizzard just seems like politicians running attack ads to me at this point, and I'm calling them out for it. I like Blizz too, they don't need to stoop to this level.; October 20, 2008 1:37 PM
Stephen said...: It really seems sleazy. Mythic has only portrayed love for WoW in the past. Whether they actually like the game or not is another issue. I have yet to see an interview where a Mythic employ points out flaws in others games.

So why does Blizzard feel the need to stoop to this level and bash very specific aspects of the game? You can add in as many "I really respect them" comments in between insults as you want, but its still an insult...; October 20, 2008 3:42 PM
GT said...: Yep, a lot of political brinkmanship going on right now.

Which reminds me, I wonder how Colin Powell's endorsement of Mark Jacobs in this fight will impact things?; October 20, 2008 3:46 PM
SleeperService said...: This political banter being spewed about by blizzard is bollocks.

I mean they are trying to claim the UI, which I saw for the first time in NWN, and it is probably older than that.

Claiming BGs, which have been in MMOs for ages.

The thing I find most disturbing about this whole thing, as that only 4 short years ago, WoW had no BGs, a very basic UI, all in all an uncharacteristically unpolished game.

Then they released BGs, and I for one remember being in the queue for AV for SEVERAL HOURS, as I'm sure anyone who was around before cross server BGs will remember.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I find that blizz's statements are wildly hypocritical, and they are pushing me to WAR:AR for more reasons than fun (I realize this means that I am essentially siding with a subsidiary of the devil, EA).; October 20, 2008 4:20 PM
redtigeroh said...: I like reading your blog Brent you do a really good job, especially your vids! However, on this one I have to disagree with you. Not to say that you couldn't be right, but I didn't really take the comments in that context. You should read over some of your own comments about Warhammer after we started playing in the live game, you shared some of the same queue issues Jeff mentioned. This has been blown up by the gaming sites to make hype where none really exists.

In truth the comments Kaplan made are fair, because as both a long-time WoW player and month-long Warhammer player, I agree with his statements. It's not that Mythic isn't trying, they are, and the game is good, but it's not yet as good as WoW. I'm going to move back to WoW when the expansion launches, because Warhammer requires a really big guild to be successful and while that was good for me in the past I want to play more casually now, but Warhammer is not kind to the casual and/or solo player. Warhammer will one day be a great game, no doubt, but if they can't stand up to peer review then maybe things aren't all roses in Warhammer-land!

My two cents...
RedTigerOH; October 20, 2008 9:14 PM
redtigeroh said...: Sorry for the two posts in a row, but I forgot to post a link to the comments, so you guys can re-read them without the game site hype. He spoke pretty well of Mythic and Warhammer I think and his comments are realistic and fair in my estimation.

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/10/16/world-of-warcraft-game-director-on-warhammer-online/

Peace,
RedTigerOH; October 20, 2008 9:25 PM
br3ntbr0 said...: @redigeroh
Thanks man, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I am a Blizzard fan too, and I agree that Jeff Kaplan's criticizms are accurate for the most part. However, its not a fair criticism to compare a game 4 years in the making to one that has been around only a month.; October 20, 2008 9:27 PM
redtigeroh said...: @br3ntbr0

One other thought about this subject. I don't want an argument, so this post is not in that spirit, I respect your work here and we both agree that we like Blizzard and Mythic.

Another thing to consider is that Jeff didn't just go public with these comments and start stirring trouble, but these questions were brought to him. He was responding to interview questions, so I guess to me it's just not fair to assume the guy was bashing WAR. Is there some specific comment you read that makes you think he was being mean here? He even mentioned a friendship between himself and Paul Barnett and invited the Mythic guys into the their WotLK beta, so I just don't understand why he is being characterized as attacking Mythic or WAR.

Peace,
RedTigerOH; October 20, 2008 9:41 PM
Anonymous said...: What I find funny is that I played in WARs release (not playing now) and it was much smoother than 3.0 from blizzard....people who complained about WARs launch should go play 4 year old WoW and see how bad the servers have been the past 3 weeks. On my server you're unable to join BGs, as of the past 2 days....would you rather have long que's or be unable to join?; October 20, 2008 10:55 PM
Myki said...: Redtigeroh said: It's not that Mythic isn't trying, they are, and the game is good, but it's not yet as good as WoW. I'm going to move back to WoW when the expansion launches, because Warhammer requires a really big guild to be successful and while that was good for me in the past I want to play more casually now, but Warhammer is not kind to the casual and/or solo player.

Wow thats an interesting statement! I am the complete opposite and found to get anywhere in WoW I needed to be part of a good sized raiding alliance and in War I can take keeps, run scenario's and do all the adventuring I like with a 15 person guild that doesn't need to log in for 5 hours to raid somewhere. Although yes, for City sieges thats going to take alliances. I have nothing against Blizz or any other game company. The more they produce the more choice for the average punter.; October 21, 2008 2:45 AM
Klemzo said...: I love blizz and im playing WoW for 2 years now. But things change, better stuff comes out, they can't think that WoW will be popular forever. They need something new and better and they could take the time to make WoW better or release something new insteand of complaining through WAR and Mythic.

And I must say I will still play WoW cause I like it but if they will just keep releasing expansions and new features but nothing really improved and new like better graphic, better gameplay and better UI they won't come far.
Its 4 years old game and that idiot goes compare it whit WAR!
Fuck him and fuck that. Its so political, blizzard is rich anyway and does fat guys in white fox that made it could like 1000 richman lives and they still complain!

I say screw them and play WAR!
Im sory but i never thought blizz could do something like this, just to spoil a game so he can get more ppl on his own one.
He probably really really liked it cause the system is just amazing, you can pvp ANY TIME and get cool exp and renown rewards not like in wow where you have to go to main city and wait there and play just for some points for better gear....

Sry if I sad anything insulting but thats what I think and WAR is just better then WOW, blizz has to face whit that and try to make better one. IF not they just can go donate to poor ppl insteand of bragging and insulting others whit their rich and fat bodies!

Ty! -.-

P.S.
Sory if their is dobule post.; October 21, 2008 5:42 AM
Anonymous said...: I think it's interesting that Blizz voiced any public criticism at all. I think this shows that they are taking WAR seriously as a competitor. Which is good, and healthy and will made both games better for it.

Regardless of the problems that WAR has, I don't see myself ever going back to WoW. It was far from casual friendly. I always felt it was much more interested in catering to the 10% (and I think I'm being generous) of the player base that would ever be able to enter places like Black Temple/Sunwell. And don't get me started on PvP imbalance and the glorified duels that were Arenas.

WoW will appeal to a certain type, and WAR will appeal to another and that's a good thing.; October 21, 2008 8:11 AM
Klemzo said...: Mwehehehe... yes I actually never thought about that.
There were tons of games released, and pretty good ones like Age Of Conan and alot of others not so famous but Blizzard never cares about them, says anything public or comments them or even just look at them. That's cause they know by the 1st impressions of playing and public reaction as from forums that It wouldn't be such hit so they will worry about...
So yes its nice to see they responded on WAR, and that means cause they fucking bloody afraid that WAR for BLOODY BEAT THEM!! ITs massive competitor and that is WoW afraid of!
Like anonymous guy before me sad; I totaly agree whit him! :)

Blizz will soon go down if they don't do something about it. They are doing: by throwing a bad light on WAR, by critisizing WAR! Heh I don't think they will make it... :P

Hehe, WAR RULEZ!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!; October 21, 2008 9:09 AM
Tuthamon said...: I have started playing wow just before BWL was coming in to the game as an update.
and that's a looong time ago, i switched over to War because i wanted to try a new mmo.

I agree that war is very new and has a lot of bugs in the system that Mythic is working there (censer) off to fix.
but i must say that I like the way War is taking care of the problems and listening to the gamers that play the game, and making adjustments that are requested by the users of War.

Bliz has testrealms yeah i have bin on them many times. and to a big failure, the take the things ppl wright and do what they wat with the upcoming patch/expansion anyway.
Well at least that's my experience with them.

War is coming out with updates and upgrades on a weekly basis.
and that is amazing and good.
my hat gos of to mythic for there dedication towards the game and its players.

To make statements like wow did about a game is IMO just plan stupid.
For me it just drove me more to War then before.

I just think that Blizz is showing a juvenile way of being scared of a great game.

klemzo sad..
"yes I actually never thought about that.
There were tons of games released, and pretty good ones like Age Of Conan and allot of others not so famous but Blizzard never cares about them"

Imo Paul Barnett is the one to blame here. :)
He's PR of warhammer made a big impact in the gaming community.
and I guess because of him allot of ppl got really interested about the game when they saw him on YouTube or in warhammers podcast, talking about the game and the things they were doing with it.; October 21, 2008 1:03 PM
Anonymous said...: I totally disagree that Warhammer should be compared to WoW as it was in 2004.

Right now at this very moment, I have the choice between Warhammer and WoW as they are at this very moment. There is no 4 year grace period wherein Warhammer cannot be compared to WoW. If they want peoples' money, they have to provide a game that people prefer and they cannot hide behind the fact that it just came out.

Mythic has the advantage of seeing the trials of WoW's development post-launch, so the idea that we should expect Warhammer's current state to be comparable to WoW circa 2004 does not fly.; October 22, 2008 11:30 AM
Anonymous said...: Well, Blizzard knows that slander will work, why else would they do it? I personally don't like any of blizzard's games so I feel no loyalty to stay and play.

I played WoW since Taurens didn't have mounts aand had to use plainstrider ability. WoW is 4 years old and still inferior, Everyone remembers doing MC competing againt 39 other people for loot. You had to have you gear drop, then win a roll, where in WAR you only have to win the roll and the loot is tailored for you.

WoW doesn't add new content it just recycles it, how many PvE instances are you going to release and still not improve on PvP. You have 4 BGs, that have simplistic objectives, no keeps, no capital city captures, no collision detection and class balance is a farce.

Am I a Warhammer fanboy? Yes, not because I love the companies but because I'm a fan of the way they care enough about their game to improve it and try something new. If WoW is polished to you then I suggest you play console games more often and you'll see games that come out with minimal bugs.

My main gripe about WoW is the elitism, it's not so much that they are elite but that they are showing off about a game that requires very little skill to be good in. Class>Gear>Spec>Skill, that's WoW pvp in a nutshell and I refuse to pay money to play a game that doesn't reward skill.; October 23, 2008 9:17 PM