Mythic: The definition of the word "contribution" does not mean "random luck"

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25 November 2008

by br3ntbr0

I feel cheated. Seriously. Why? For months we have been trying to figure out why some bum who does nothing wins a gold bag from a keep seige and yet another who damaged or healed his face off got 123rd in contribution with no hope of winning loot. Surely there had to be some way to find out what casued this? The players talked about it and did their own testing. Then finally, the answer is revealed and it makes me none too happy. Contribution is not contribution as you and I might expect it to be, but a random value assigned to you when you load or zone into the area you are currently in. Take the screenshot below for example, this one has been floating around and I think it makes the case:

For many die hard Warhammer Online fans this is probably old news. Regardless, it is considered to be is 100% undeniable fact now. That said, I feel like I've been misled to believe that WAR's loot distribution system was some complex algorithm that factored in actual effort from a player. This was considered to be innovative game design when it was initially displayed to the world during Mythic's pre-launch hype tour. I thought that it maybe measured healing done, damage done, and several other factors to come up with the contribution list before the random rolls started. As you can see above, none of that is true. A chicken capable of 1 damage per second can win a gold bag with this random system. There is no contribution. Your seed value upon loading/zoning in is random, then your roll for the loot is also random. The contribution is a lie.

This, in fact, makes this system the worst of any I've come across to date. I now have 2 completely terrible system designs in Warhammer Online that I feel need to be thrown in the trash: contribution and zone control. I think Regis at Wizards and Wenches summed it up pretty well:

Anyone who has played World of Warcraft knows how annoying it is to run an instance 20 times and still lose the item you want to someone who does it the first time. Contribution seemed to be a step in the right direction, without having to involve complex DKP systems out of the game. But what we have is still a random system; it is in fact worse than the one in WoW considering you don’t have the possibility to need/greed/pass on items. Here it’s like you press need every time, which can be quite frustrating when you don’t want the loot and others can benefit so much more from it.

At least we can stop worrying and sweating what it takes to finally grab the gold bag, it’s random so it will come when it comes. Disappointed is not enough to explain how I feel. Betrayed is maybe a more suitable.

Amen, Regis. The mere fact that it is called "contribution" is misleading. I think more than a few players will feel insulted by this, I know I do, as it feels that the true nature of this mechanic was hidden and not discussed with the player base. We were left to figure out that this great system that seems to be nothing more than a lazy shortcut to loot distribution. While Mythic has been outstanding in response to WAR's issues to date, I am showing no mercy on this one. FAIL.

21 comments:

Lacey said...: I totally agree with this post. I could handle all of WAR's bugs, but the contribution thing is just too much. It feels like I've been lied to, or like Mythic thought their players were too dumb to figure it out. Either way, I don't see ANY hope for RvR or the game as a whole if this current system isn't done away with. I'm really disappointed that a game based around the concept of PvP has done something this drastic to make the PvP worthless. Epic fail.; November 25, 2008 2:29 PM
ThinkTank said...: Sorry, but this comes off to me as yet another random conspiracy theory generated by the epicfailquitnow crowd...

Don't look to forum trollers for sound analysis and reasoned opinion - unless you hate the game and you're just looking for someone to validate your feelings...; November 25, 2008 2:30 PM
br3ntbr0 said...: Thinktank...conspiracy? You can't be serious! Look at the picture above and explain to me how a chicken had any contribution at all, not to mention contribution high enough so that it could roll high enough to win loot? Contribution means that you did something, some action contributed to the results. This is random, and it wasn't sold to the community that way. It was billed as a method of fairly distributing loot to those that deserve it, not a double random chance to win.; November 25, 2008 4:37 PM
Werit said...: When did the player turn into a chicken?

There is something wrong with the contribution, that is for sure.

The best explanation I have seen is that the contribution is not being cleared from the first keep take. Every test seems to have to do with taking 2 keeps in the same zone.; November 25, 2008 4:41 PM
br3ntbr0 said...: Werit, you are right. The screenshot proves nothing and I should probably edit the article to remove it. They guy could have turned during the fight. However, I have personally been nearly afk on back door guard duty and come out in the top 5 of contribution before, and yet other times I've healed my face off and been near the bottom. I think there is no question that it does not measure your contribution to the keep seige as most people expected it to.; November 25, 2008 4:51 PM
ThinkTank said...: Hey Brent - it happened to me.
I was in the middle of a keep siege when I dinged across to rank 22.

And suddenly, I was a chicken in the midst of a keep fight! So it does happen.

Can't remember if I earned anything in terms of contribution. But until that point, I was one of the lead tanks in the fight, so probably would have been eligible.

Sorry if I came off a little annoyed - forum posts these days are 90 per cent aggro, 5 per cent thoughtful commentary.

MJ today makes a series of bold pronouncements for the future of ORVR, thus highlighting how important it is to Mythic that this be the focal point of this game - and all we get from the forum posters is more bile spilling. Can't deal; November 25, 2008 4:51 PM
maddog015 said...: My guildies and I just tested this on a public quest in Altdorf. The one where you kill lots of demons in the basement. I had a bonus of 500 after the first run of it. Figured I did a good job--better than my buddies who were 2 lvls higher. It seemed fishy when I continued to get the same bonus every time. To be fair, I did nothing the next run. No fighting. Not anything. Just was in the area. I might've gotten one hit on something. Either way, I got the same bonus.

You're right, Brent. GARBAGE. Hopefully, Mythic will address this now.; November 25, 2008 5:39 PM
metrogamer said...: As a self-proclaimed PQ-whore, I find it odd when I go through all the stages, repeat it, and get 0 rewards. Now we're finding out why.

Any bets on how Mythic's going to put a spin on this? Working as intended?; November 25, 2008 8:22 PM
Lacey said...: My first thought when looking at the screenshot up close was, "Yeah right, how did that guy even turn into a chicken when it's obvious everyone else in the keep is level 40? It takes point-two-seconds to turn into a chicken, so wouldn't they ALL be chickens by the end of the fight?"

Then I noticed he was 41, which isn't supposed to be possible.

Then I found this link. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm?post=2446040&bhcp=1#2446040

So, yeah, the screenshot might be faulty... but it doesn't change the fact that "Contribution" is nothing more than "Dumb Luck." Forum fodder or not, I at least feel better about healing my ass off and still landing 87th on the charts (though not "better" enough to keep my account for long, because that's just LAME).

And seriously, how'd that guy manage to get to 41? :D; November 25, 2008 10:57 PM
Dan said...: Just to cover all bases... Are we sure the static contribution isn't a bug where, say, the first contribution earned in a PQ overrides subsequent attempts?; November 26, 2008 12:34 AM
Anonymous said...: Chances are the screeny was taken because during the siege he dinged to 41 and turned into a chicken - that's not supposed to be possible and so they took a screeny. Prior to dinging, he could have been kicking ass with his character and generating plenty of contribution.

From the picture, there's absolutely no way to '100% undeniably' prove that you dont need to contribute to get loot. there have been a couple of times when I've joined a keep siege just as they took down the keep lord and I had the message 'You have not contributed enough to roll for a reward' if there was a random seed when you zone in, this wouldn't happen...

Would be interesting to test the theory further tho, in low level tiers, there are plenty of undefended keeps in the Greenskin or Elf zones to make a proper analysis; November 26, 2008 3:50 AM
Anonymous said...: The screen shot is taken in drakebreakers scourge, thats in chaos wastes, thats not a zone you can get chickened in so ITS A FAKE; November 26, 2008 7:22 AM
Anonymous said...: That screenshot was posted on the WHA boards a while back:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188631

Unless the 'conspiracy' extends to the player in question being a flat-out liar, his character got bugged and dinged 41 "for a good long while before the keep siege". See post #15 in the linked thread.

He posted this thread the day before the one above, in reference to his character reaching 41:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187723; November 26, 2008 7:32 AM
Gorefang said...: Yea.. if a pic is work 1000 words that screenshot does not say much. But..hey. All the cool kids hate WAR now. So guess I should be cool also.; November 26, 2008 10:54 AM
JoBildo said...: @Gorefang: Welcome to typical post-launch fallout. People love it before, love it early on, then hate it and shout it from the rooftops to feel justified in leaving later.

Not directed @ you Br3nt, since you still support the game and are just a bit disappointed. But at the online community around MMOs as a whole. It's kind of revolting. People just can't let go and move on without making a stink over it.; November 26, 2008 11:29 AM
br3ntbr0 said...: I still play alot of WAR:

http://www.xfire.com/profile/br3ntbr0/

I've only played WoW a few hours more overall. JoBildo stated it correctly, Mythic and WAR still have my support. I'm just disappointed.; November 26, 2008 12:30 PM
Anonymous said...: I seriously need to get up on this War; November 28, 2008 3:57 PM
Faggotron said...: Seriously.

This seems like it could easily be made by someone; November 29, 2008 2:31 AM
Dorik said...: To show the chicken picture is fake... the chicken is lvl 41... out of the 40 lvls in WAR?; November 29, 2008 5:14 PM
Sendrick said...: I actually got pissed about this, later last week. My friend who plays a Swordmaster has gotten in 1-2 place the past 9 keeps we have taken. Later we went into Inevitable City for the city siege PQ, and 5 of the 6 times we completed the PQ, he placed 1st and thus received 5 gold bags.

This is getting rediculous and i seriously hope it gets fixed soon.; December 1, 2008 1:53 AM
Ferrel said...: Yeah... I'm glad someone has been doing some testing on this because I've felt the "random" really wasn't.

It is sad that this isn't a higher priority for Mythic.; December 2, 2008 1:40 PM

Anyone who has played World of Warcraft knows how annoying it is to run an instance 20 times and still lose the item you want to someone who does it the first time. Contribution seemed to be a step in the right direction, without having to involve complex DKP systems out of the game. But what we have is still a random system; it is in fact worse than the one in WoW considering you don’t have the possibility to need/greed/pass on items. Here it’s like you press need every time, which can be quite frustrating when you don’t want the loot and others can benefit so much more from it.

At least we can stop worrying and sweating what it takes to finally grab the gold bag, it’s random so it will come when it comes. Disappointed is not enough to explain how I feel. Betrayed is maybe a more suitable.